<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Media Optimization</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.darrenherman.com/2009/05/26/media-optimization/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.darrenherman.com/2009/05/26/media-optimization/</link>
	<description>Marketing, Media, and Technology Conversations</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 14:47:48 -0500</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Suhail</title>
		<link>http://www.darrenherman.com/2009/05/26/media-optimization/comment-page-1/#comment-94832</link>
		<dc:creator>Suhail</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 08:44:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darrenherman.com/?p=944#comment-94832</guid>
		<description>Darren, A great thought provoking post!&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Well, I almost agree. Except that it is really, really tough to make an automated system that takes decisions for optimizing the &quot;site&quot; and the &quot;creative&quot; part of the campaign with out the involvement of humans. I feel there are way too many parameters with varying degree involved in this. The system should submit its best possible solutions and leave the final step of decision making whether to follow them or not to the humans, like Jonathan said, &quot;helping us aim better&quot;.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Suhail&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.brainwavelive.com/products/livesku.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Secondary sales tracking&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Darren, A great thought provoking post!</p>
<p>Well, I almost agree. Except that it is really, really tough to make an automated system that takes decisions for optimizing the &#8220;site&#8221; and the &#8220;creative&#8221; part of the campaign with out the involvement of humans. I feel there are way too many parameters with varying degree involved in this. The system should submit its best possible solutions and leave the final step of decision making whether to follow them or not to the humans, like Jonathan said, &#8220;helping us aim better&#8221;.</p>
<p>Suhail<br /><a href="http://www.brainwavelive.com/products/livesku.html" rel="nofollow">Secondary sales tracking</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rob Sandie</title>
		<link>http://www.darrenherman.com/2009/05/26/media-optimization/comment-page-1/#comment-92097</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Sandie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 02:44:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darrenherman.com/?p=944#comment-92097</guid>
		<description>This is why it&#039;s difficult being a middle-market site. I am finding the ad networks tend to do a much better job of consistently selling. The question is when do you turn serious for selling direct to advertisers? 20M monthly uniques?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is why it&#39;s difficult being a middle-market site. I am finding the ad networks tend to do a much better job of consistently selling. The question is when do you turn serious for selling direct to advertisers? 20M monthly uniques?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Zev</title>
		<link>http://www.darrenherman.com/2009/05/26/media-optimization/comment-page-1/#comment-92069</link>
		<dc:creator>Zev</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 09:36:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darrenherman.com/?p=944#comment-92069</guid>
		<description>Re William Taylor,&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The basics, the &quot;art, not science&quot; is not what Darren can add. He can add rigorous research too the contributions of the artists. The art produced can and often does have unintended effects beyond the dreams of artists. What Darren can find, is what that effect is, how strong, significant, and predictable it is, and whom it most effects. That knowledge is powerful, and totally outside of the realm of human artistic abilities.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I can not do what you do, Mr. Taylor, but I do know that the human responses to it can be measured. We can never know the true response, or effect, but we can measure it with a surprising accuracy. (at lease, some of us can).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re William Taylor,</p>
<p>The basics, the &#8220;art, not science&#8221; is not what Darren can add. He can add rigorous research too the contributions of the artists. The art produced can and often does have unintended effects beyond the dreams of artists. What Darren can find, is what that effect is, how strong, significant, and predictable it is, and whom it most effects. That knowledge is powerful, and totally outside of the realm of human artistic abilities.</p>
<p>I can not do what you do, Mr. Taylor, but I do know that the human responses to it can be measured. We can never know the true response, or effect, but we can measure it with a surprising accuracy. (at lease, some of us can).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: dherman76</title>
		<link>http://www.darrenherman.com/2009/05/26/media-optimization/comment-page-1/#comment-92065</link>
		<dc:creator>dherman76</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 01:25:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darrenherman.com/?p=944#comment-92065</guid>
		<description>William, thanks for the note.  Historically, we&#039;ve always used persuasion based on the entire media buy - or the same message to a large &quot;audience.&quot;  When audiences can be segmented and precise deliverance can be guaranteed, persuasion now happens almost on a 1-1 level and metrics get amplified.  If we didn&#039;t understand the basics, we would not have gotten here.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The business is not all science - and that&#039;s the beauty of it.  We still need art to create a message that resonates with specific audience segments.  A world where creative directors paired with data analysts is not that far off, and in some cases, it&#039;s here today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>William, thanks for the note.  Historically, we&#39;ve always used persuasion based on the entire media buy &#8211; or the same message to a large &#8220;audience.&#8221;  When audiences can be segmented and precise deliverance can be guaranteed, persuasion now happens almost on a 1-1 level and metrics get amplified.  If we didn&#39;t understand the basics, we would not have gotten here.</p>
<p>The business is not all science &#8211; and that&#39;s the beauty of it.  We still need art to create a message that resonates with specific audience segments.  A world where creative directors paired with data analysts is not that far off, and in some cases, it&#39;s here today.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: William Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.darrenherman.com/2009/05/26/media-optimization/comment-page-1/#comment-92063</link>
		<dc:creator>William Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 00:31:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darrenherman.com/?p=944#comment-92063</guid>
		<description>Darren,&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;RE: &lt;a href=&quot;http://NYTIMES.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;NYTIMES.com&lt;/a&gt; article&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I hate to break it to you, but advertising metrics have been around a long time. In the 1930&#039;s advertisers would use split runs in newspapers to generate the exact same type of metrics. There is always some smug &quot;numbers&quot; guy spouting off the same assured speech about how this is route to success…until it turns out that it isn&#039;t. The &quot;big idea&quot; and &quot;catchy phrase&quot; the article so condescendingly refer to are persuasion. Persuasion is the business of advertising and it happens to be an art, not a science. The difference between a price off and a free T-shirt is a false choice. The real choice is imagination or the same old tire tricks that everyone else is doing. If you are going to work in advertising, you need to understand the basics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Darren,</p>
<p>RE: <a href="http://NYTIMES.com" rel="nofollow">NYTIMES.com</a> article</p>
<p>I hate to break it to you, but advertising metrics have been around a long time. In the 1930&#39;s advertisers would use split runs in newspapers to generate the exact same type of metrics. There is always some smug &#8220;numbers&#8221; guy spouting off the same assured speech about how this is route to success…until it turns out that it isn&#39;t. The &#8220;big idea&#8221; and &#8220;catchy phrase&#8221; the article so condescendingly refer to are persuasion. Persuasion is the business of advertising and it happens to be an art, not a science. The difference between a price off and a free T-shirt is a false choice. The real choice is imagination or the same old tire tricks that everyone else is doing. If you are going to work in advertising, you need to understand the basics.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: dherman76</title>
		<link>http://www.darrenherman.com/2009/05/26/media-optimization/comment-page-1/#comment-92047</link>
		<dc:creator>dherman76</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 05:20:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darrenherman.com/?p=944#comment-92047</guid>
		<description>Love the analogy you used.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Love the analogy you used.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: noahrobinson</title>
		<link>http://www.darrenherman.com/2009/05/26/media-optimization/comment-page-1/#comment-91987</link>
		<dc:creator>noahrobinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 19:44:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darrenherman.com/?p=944#comment-91987</guid>
		<description>Hi Darren,&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Totally agree that algorithms will ultimately do a much better job optimizing than humans -- but only if the media strategists/analysts set up the media plan to test and optimize against the right variables.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I think the biggest obstacle towards future-perfect optimization is the lack of  supply-chain integration between clients and buying partners. We need clients to share realtime sales data with media buying agencies/exchange partners. To achieve better integration we&#039;ll need serious security, confiendiality, and privacy protocols in place. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Once we get to that point, the game changes dramatically.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;But to get there, we need humans, not computers :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Darren,</p>
<p>Totally agree that algorithms will ultimately do a much better job optimizing than humans &#8212; but only if the media strategists/analysts set up the media plan to test and optimize against the right variables.</p>
<p>I think the biggest obstacle towards future-perfect optimization is the lack of  supply-chain integration between clients and buying partners. We need clients to share realtime sales data with media buying agencies/exchange partners. To achieve better integration we&#39;ll need serious security, confiendiality, and privacy protocols in place. </p>
<p>Once we get to that point, the game changes dramatically.</p>
<p>But to get there, we need humans, not computers <img src='http://www.darrenherman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: greghills</title>
		<link>http://www.darrenherman.com/2009/05/26/media-optimization/comment-page-1/#comment-91954</link>
		<dc:creator>greghills</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 May 2009 00:21:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darrenherman.com/?p=944#comment-91954</guid>
		<description>Vlad&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As Darren mentioned, you make a great point with the view-through vs. click-through conversion. Even if you optimized off a specific action, instead of clicks, and allowed for view-through and click-through conversions, you would have to consider the view-through delay. If most of your conversions came from view-throughs, and the average view-through conversion took 7-10 days, it would greatly limit your ability to optimize.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Interesting to see how you and Darren think differently about paperwork getting in the way of optimization.....in my experience, it really depends on how specific the contract is. If you wanted, you could issue a contract with specified impressions by day, by creative size, and by section/target. Or you could just list one line item for the entire campaign. It depends on how much freedom the planner wants to give the account manager to optimize the campaign without having to consult the planner and revise the paperwork.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vlad</p>
<p>As Darren mentioned, you make a great point with the view-through vs. click-through conversion. Even if you optimized off a specific action, instead of clicks, and allowed for view-through and click-through conversions, you would have to consider the view-through delay. If most of your conversions came from view-throughs, and the average view-through conversion took 7-10 days, it would greatly limit your ability to optimize.</p>
<p>Interesting to see how you and Darren think differently about paperwork getting in the way of optimization&#8230;..in my experience, it really depends on how specific the contract is. If you wanted, you could issue a contract with specified impressions by day, by creative size, and by section/target. Or you could just list one line item for the entire campaign. It depends on how much freedom the planner wants to give the account manager to optimize the campaign without having to consult the planner and revise the paperwork.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: greghills</title>
		<link>http://www.darrenherman.com/2009/05/26/media-optimization/comment-page-1/#comment-91953</link>
		<dc:creator>greghills</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 23:52:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darrenherman.com/?p=944#comment-91953</guid>
		<description>Great post Darren. Your post reminded me of a quote from an X+1 whitepaper: &quot;What Is Optimization&quot; (&lt;a href=&quot;http://bit.ly/Qq6aC&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://bit.ly/Qq6aC&lt;/a&gt;)&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;What does it mean to say we &#039;optimize&#039; online marketing? To many, it connotes some sort of &#039;improvement&#039;, but it is far more than a fancy word for &#039;improvement&#039;. &#039;Improvement is a lnear, single step in making something better, while &#039;optimization&#039; is a mathematically rigorous evaluation of the full range of practical options leadin gto the selection of the best available choice. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Here is a good example: Painting a house is not the same as optimizing its resale value (though it helps). If no attempt is made to evaluate the full range of alternatives for spending time and effort on the house, you&#039;re merely improving (without &#039;optimizing&#039;) the price your house will bring.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;The distinction between improvement and optimization is important. Given the complexity of point #3, I would say that humans can improve, technologies can optimize.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Media is already optimized to a certain degree, since ad networks already have the algorithms to optimize. So individual network buys are optimized in silos, but the overall plan is only improved. Optimizing across networks will bring huge gains, especially if you get a user-level view of interactions across the multiple high-overlap networks with multiple creative messages. As Jonathan and Darren mentioned, the creative is important too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post Darren. Your post reminded me of a quote from an X+1 whitepaper: &#8220;What Is Optimization&#8221; (<a href="http://bit.ly/Qq6aC" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/Qq6aC</a>)</p>
<p>&#8220;What does it mean to say we &#39;optimize&#39; online marketing? To many, it connotes some sort of &#39;improvement&#39;, but it is far more than a fancy word for &#39;improvement&#39;. &#39;Improvement is a lnear, single step in making something better, while &#39;optimization&#39; is a mathematically rigorous evaluation of the full range of practical options leadin gto the selection of the best available choice. </p>
<p>Here is a good example: Painting a house is not the same as optimizing its resale value (though it helps). If no attempt is made to evaluate the full range of alternatives for spending time and effort on the house, you&#39;re merely improving (without &#39;optimizing&#39;) the price your house will bring.&#8221;</p>
<p>The distinction between improvement and optimization is important. Given the complexity of point #3, I would say that humans can improve, technologies can optimize.</p>
<p>Media is already optimized to a certain degree, since ad networks already have the algorithms to optimize. So individual network buys are optimized in silos, but the overall plan is only improved. Optimizing across networks will bring huge gains, especially if you get a user-level view of interactions across the multiple high-overlap networks with multiple creative messages. As Jonathan and Darren mentioned, the creative is important too.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: dherman76</title>
		<link>http://www.darrenherman.com/2009/05/26/media-optimization/comment-page-1/#comment-91934</link>
		<dc:creator>dherman76</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 01:31:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.darrenherman.com/?p=944#comment-91934</guid>
		<description>Vlad, thank you for the comment and feedback.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;You raise some great points to consider.  Here are some questions/thoughts based on your notes:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;1.  Multi-variate testing and optimization is great in theory, but you need to truly separate out specific audiences in order to make it most effective.  You raise a great point about &quot;click-based optimization&quot; - clicks vs. view-thru&#039;s are different but treated either exactly the same or similar with many brands.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;2.  Contracts and paperwork get in the way of some optimization, but I&#039;ve found that Ad Networks are able to optimize within their infrastructure without much paperwork, if any.  It&#039;s up to the yield manager and publisher/network to make a campaign &quot;work.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;3.  Agreed that auditing and universal tech allowing a close-eye on campaigns and companies like DoubleVerify are leading the charge here and providing some forward thinking agencies and clients.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vlad, thank you for the comment and feedback.</p>
<p>You raise some great points to consider.  Here are some questions/thoughts based on your notes:</p>
<p>1.  Multi-variate testing and optimization is great in theory, but you need to truly separate out specific audiences in order to make it most effective.  You raise a great point about &#8220;click-based optimization&#8221; &#8211; clicks vs. view-thru&#39;s are different but treated either exactly the same or similar with many brands.</p>
<p>2.  Contracts and paperwork get in the way of some optimization, but I&#39;ve found that Ad Networks are able to optimize within their infrastructure without much paperwork, if any.  It&#39;s up to the yield manager and publisher/network to make a campaign &#8220;work.&#8221;</p>
<p>3.  Agreed that auditing and universal tech allowing a close-eye on campaigns and companies like DoubleVerify are leading the charge here and providing some forward thinking agencies and clients.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
